High-Key Growth Podcast Feature
February 13, 2024
Pittsburgh Digital Marketing Agency, Podcast,
Tags: digital marketing agency, google ads, HBT Digital Consulting, pittsburgh digital marketing, podcast, RJ Huebert Podcast, search engine marketing, social media advertising,
Recently, RJ Huebert sat down with Geena Greguric of the High-Key Growth Podcast and spoke about online advertising and lead generation. Give it a listen now, and the transcript is below if you’d like to read the conversation.
In this episode, RJ covers:
- Building the right keyword strategy for your business
- Types of ads and how to identify which is best for you
- How to balance your ad spend efficiently
- Tips for improving ad performance
Geena Greguric [00:00:11]:
Welcome to High Key Growth, the early stage founders, solopreneurs, and marketers guide to achieving rapid growth while running lean. And I’m your host, Gina Gregorick. So today joining me is RJ Hubert, founder of HBT Digital Consulting, a digital marketing agency right here in Pittsburgh Focused on digital advertising and lead generation. For the last 10 years, RJ has worked across numerous industries marketing and really honed his expertise in the digital space. So that being said, I am really excited to welcome you. RJ, welcome to the show.
RJ Huebert [00:00:43]:
Gina, so happy to be here. Thanks for having me, and, I’m excited to see your entrepreneurial journey here as well.
Geena Greguric [00:00:49]:
Oh, no. I’m I’m excited for sure. So before we dive in, can you give my listeners a little bit of background on you and what you’re up to today over at HBT?
RJ Huebert [00:01:01]:
So I’ve been in the marketing world for about 15 years now. Started on the corporate side. I was the corporate marketer, Always focus on lead generation. So I went from, like, corporate banking to health care to for profit medical school, And it was all centered on how do we get more leads in the door? How do we get our current members to use more banking products? How do we sell more Medicare and Medicaid? And I was developing strategy and launching digital advertising campaigns.
Geena Greguric [00:01:35]:
Yeah. And, I mean, real really diverse industry. So you could definitely tell you’ve you’ve been all over, so I’m excited to dig into that a little bit. When you’re looking at the landscape for digital advertising today across any industry, but more specifically for early stage smaller companies, What does that landscape look like right now?
RJ Huebert [00:01:56]:
Well, in my opinion, if you’re a small company, if you’re a newer company, if you’re a start up, You need to get the word out that you exist. You need to tell people who you are, what we do, what you stand for. And one of the best ways to do that is through online advertising.
Geena Greguric [00:02:12]:
Yeah. For sure. And so for someone who’s just starting out with marketing initiatives, you look at a lot of these founders, and they Maybe don’t have a marketing background, but all of a sudden, it’s on their shoulders to do it. Right? What are some of those really high level strategic considerations that they should should have in place before they even dive into digital advertising.
RJ Huebert [00:02:31]:
You know, I think they need to understand, like, what do they hope to accomplish? And they need to understand conversions, and that conversion is how somebody interacts with your business. Do they Make a phone call? Do they fill out a lead form? Do they email you? Do they make a purchase? And there’s other countless metrics you can Track. So I think the start up person needs to understand, like, what do they want to accomplish at the end of the day? Because they don’t have an unlimited budget. Even most 6 7 figures, they companies, they don’t have an unlimited budget either. So You really under need to understand, like, what what do I hope what what can I try to accomplish?
Geena Greguric [00:03:15]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And I think too you mentioned All these different goals that you can set with with advertising, which I think is really important, and we’re gonna talk a lot more about here later. But, even comes to mind If you are in a certain industry where where you have a pretty good hunch that social’s gonna be a big driver for you I mean, you could even be Putting out paid behind followers. So there’s so many different things that you can advertise once you start to understand or, like, put money behind once you start to stand your target audience and what your goal really is.
RJ Huebert [00:03:46]:
And there’s and some of some of these things are, you know, vanity metrics. Like, oh, how many followers did I get? Or even to a larger extent, like, even impressions, even clicks. Because if there’s no tracking behind it, if there’s no intent on what you want them to do Mhmm. You I wouldn’t say you’re wasting money. I mean, it’s definitely an investment in your business, but just an impression, like, is that gonna move the needle for your business?
Geena Greguric [00:04:15]:
You know,
RJ Huebert [00:04:15]:
you have that you have to be real with yourself, like, how do I make my business grow? How do I, Bring revenue in. Yeah. You know, as a founder, it’s all about that revenue and your net profit.
Geena Greguric [00:04:27]:
Yeah. And so I think I think something that’s really important there is understanding Where your target audience is and how to drive those conversions with them. So how how crucial is it? Because, again, when you’re when you’re early days at a start up, You’re building your business. You’re building your product. You’re kind of you’re you’re building the plane as you’re flying it. Right? So maybe you don’t have your target audience totally pinpointed just yet. How crucial is it to clearly define that audience before you start putting money behind paid? And And after that, what strategies do you recommend for pinpointing the right demographic?
RJ Huebert [00:05:01]:
Right. Well, you know, when you’re kinda going on the social channels and I’ll just start with the The the biggest, you know, player in the room, which is Meadow, you know, Facebook and Instagram
Geena Greguric [00:05:11]:
Mhmm.
RJ Huebert [00:05:12]:
WhatsApp, things like that. You can start a little more broad, and that’s okay. Like, you don’t have to have the most narrow and strict rules for who your audience is because They are gonna find your audience. They’re gonna find who that person is that’s gonna respond to your ads. So you can start a little more broad And base it on interest or other demographic info, and let Facebook work its magic.
Geena Greguric [00:05:39]:
Yeah. No. Absolutely. And are there any Research tools that you’re using or you might recommend for someone while they’re still trying to understand their target market, their interests, Their demographics.
RJ Huebert [00:05:52]:
Oh, yeah. There’s so much out there. So if you think social is gonna be where your audience is and where you wanna play, You know, Facebook has its own training program. It’s called the blueprint. And so you can do these, like, courses just to get caught up. I personally like HubSpot trainings a lot. HubSpot, while being an amazing CRM, which I highly recommend to your audience, it’s it’s free. There there there are paid options out there.
RJ Huebert [00:06:20]:
But HubSpot has great training programs, and I’m a, self motivated learner personally. So I am digging into YouTube. I am trying to on 1 on 1 screen, I’m watching YouTube videos on how to do something, And then on my personal ad accounts, you know, I’m building building it out or, you know, things that I’m watching, I’m I’m trying to replicate. So that’s one way to do it as well, And then there’s some, like, industry players that are just, like, masters of, like, teaching. Neil Patel being one of them. So, like, go to his YouTube page, go to his website and just learn how to do it. He really writes for the beginner out there. So There are so many different avenues you can take, and it’s really, like, how you like to learn.
Geena Greguric [00:07:05]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think we all have an MBA from Google University at this Point 2.
RJ Huebert [00:07:11]:
Yeah. It you know, I love learning from, you know, people who have been there and done that too, So I’m constantly learning. I I don’t know it all. Even though I’ll hit 5 years in business this May, there’s still things I’m learning today. So, like, I have other agency owners And ad specialist that I reach out to if I have questions. You know, for your audience, if they have any just general questions, hit me up. I’d be more than happy to Point them in the right direction. Not not in sales y at all, just, like, helpful, because I want them to win.
RJ Huebert [00:07:42]:
I want small businesses to win. I’m a small business advocate and champion.
Geena Greguric [00:07:45]:
Hey. Appreciate that. Also, congratulations. 5 years coming up. Whoo.
RJ Huebert [00:07:49]:
It’s amazing, stepping out from that corporate world. You gotta be there every day. You know, I’ve just had my 2nd child, and, I’ve been to every single doctor’s appointment, every single before birth, every single appointment, you know, and, Taking her to day care and picking her up, it’s just the flexibility is amazing.
Geena Greguric [00:08:08]:
Oh, yeah. Exact a few months deep in it here myself, and I have to say I totally agree with you there. So, jumping back into sort of advertising. When you’re looking at social media, oh my goodness, all the channels. Right? Like, you have Meta, which is your Instagram, your Facebook. You have X. You have LinkedIn. You have so many different places that you can Pinterest that you can be advertising.
Geena Greguric [00:08:32]:
And then you have also Google, Bing, all of all of those, the PPC. So how can founders decide which ones best align with The business goals that they’ve developed, especially when we’re talking about a limited budget, and you can’t do all of it.
RJ Huebert [00:08:46]:
Can’t be everywhere. You know that I mean, that’s a great question. I get that, you know, question all the time. You know, how should we, you know, spend our marketing dollars? What we do? You know, I point people in the direction of, like, what is king? What is the absolute biggest monster in the room? That’s Google Ads. You go to Google Ads because you want an answer to a question. You go to that search bar. I need the best pizza in Pittsburgh. I wanna buy a Pittsburgh Steelers jersey.
RJ Huebert [00:09:14]:
I wanna hire the best online advertising agency, things like that. So when someone goes to Google and searches for something, you know, your ad can come right to the top. So if you have a product or service, that’s a great thing to do. Now on the social side of things, meta, for example, that’s based on interests, and that’s based on demographics. So if you have a really good sense of The type of person that might be interested in your project or services, that could be a good place to start. Okay. Now somebody on LinkedIn, if they’re in the b to b audience, that could be the spot. If you’re if you wanna, like, find somebody by job title or industry or job role or Seniority.
RJ Huebert [00:10:01]:
That could be the spot for you. So it it I guess the number one thing is it really starts out with what is your product or service Mhmm. And then what kind of person uses your product or service?
Geena Greguric [00:10:15]:
Right. No. That exactly. And I I’ve been in a couple of positions Where I’ve had to do marketing for companies who are maybe a little bit more of a blue ocean, they they’re not really something that people are searching, and I think that’s something thing where a lot of companies, aren’t thinking when they’re thinking about Google. Right? When you’re putting ad behind search, you’re You’re mainly targeting people, and this is why it’s so expensive, who are actively searching for what you have right now. If you have a solution that maybe isn’t something that people are looking up because they don’t know it exists yet. They don’t know there’s something for that problem. That’s where, again, like, those other channels, I think, Could be a lot more valuable to you, and maybe, like, Google something you pump the brakes on today.
RJ Huebert [00:10:57]:
Well, I mean, the you know, that that is a great point, But Google also has other campaign types that might be, like, perfect. Even if you don’t have, like if you don’t know what that key keyword is that you wanna target, I could point them in the direction of a display ad because display ad, you can be very visual and you can target people, you know, based on custom audiences. So, like, these type of people that I want to see my ad are searching for this type of thing, Or these people that I want to see my ad may visit similar websites. And if you have that information, you can show them display ads, which is awesome. And then you can be visual, you can be have your copy, and draw the person in that way. Also, YouTube. Hello. YouTube’s amazing.
RJ Huebert [00:11:48]:
So if you have some awesome video content, you may wanna promote on YouTube. And then that’s a visual thing. You can Explain what your product or service is, and that might be another avenue for you.
Geena Greguric [00:11:59]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So depending on situation, I know I know you could target different ones, but do you have a preference Between search, display, or any other type of ad that that Google might offer, how how does someone decide which one they go with?
RJ Huebert [00:12:12]:
Alright. So I’m a steak guy, and my steak of choice is Google search ads. Because I want when someone goes to Google, I want, you know, whatever they’re searching for, if if if my Client has that product or service. I want them to be in the top 3 positions. Yeah. If you’re not running ads and you’re trying to rank organically For your website on Google, I mean, it is damn near impossible to even get on that 1st page or even the top 10. Like, the first Three things on Google are gonna be your ads, and then you might have maps. And then you if you keep scrolling, maybe you have some Highly optimized websites, like, ranking above that, and then all the other sites that have been pushing content for years and Other websites linking to them, and it’s just it’s just so hard to even get in the top 20, top 30 of results.
RJ Huebert [00:13:11]:
That’s even a challenge. So, Google Search ads is one way to guarantee you’re gonna be up there.
Geena Greguric [00:13:18]:
Yeah. And SEO is such a long game. So if you’re a brand new company, your URL is is brand new. I mean, you’re not gonna rank in the 1st page anytime soon, so I think it’s good to put best practices in place. Like, start to Build it the right way, but, like, you can’t rely or expect to see some good organic results, like, anytime soon.
RJ Huebert [00:13:38]:
And I like in, you know, ads to You’re turning on the faucet. You’re flipping on the light switch. When you hit publish on your ad, your your visibility is right there.
Geena Greguric [00:13:49]:
Yeah.
RJ Huebert [00:13:49]:
If you if you don’t, you’re gonna be buried. It’s gonna be really hard to find you.
Geena Greguric [00:13:53]:
Yeah. And I think there’s something to be said about search ads as well because they look exactly like organic results, so it’s kind of what the the viewer is intending to find or they’re looking for. So it It’s just more of, like, an organic flow for them versus something that’s maybe a little different than than what they would normally click on. Like, they’re searching for They’re looking for results that look just like a search ad.
RJ Huebert [00:14:16]:
And if you know what they’re searching for, you can write your copy directly to them and Or their problem or the thing that they want to fix or solve, and you can share your offer right there. That’s another marketing thing. Like, if you think about your marketing channel, or you think about the campaign types you want to do or run-in your goals, You also need to think about your offer because that is so important too. Like, what do you wanna give somebody for interacting with your business? Is it a free consultation? Which everyone does, and it’s very uninspiring, and it’s pretty boring. Or do you wanna give a percent off, a Free month, a trial, a, you know, something or other, because there’s gonna be hundreds of other businesses that probably do What you do or close to what you do, so how can you stick out? How can you differentiate? And one of those ways is the offer. It’s like create an offer So good that people are kicking themselves if they don’t take advantage. And that is way easier said than done, by the way. Creating a specific offer for the right person at the right time with the the right attributes is is very, very difficult, and it’s a lot of trial and error.
RJ Huebert [00:15:28]:
Right.
Geena Greguric [00:15:28]:
Yeah. And it’s definitely something to to be thinking about at least in the early days. I know I’ve seen some decent success with having that call to action be something like, a free, like, report or some type of, like, evaluation of their business. Like, hey. We’ll come in and do a free evaluation, give you some, Like, some type of report coming out after, and I’ve seen people jump at the bit for something like that. So there there’s a whole bunch of different call to actions that you consider. But, no, you’re absolutely right. It’s it’s I
RJ Huebert [00:15:55]:
have a I have an agency friend, and and what they do is they help with, like, Creating a whole new marketing strategy for businesses. And what their offer is is, hey. We’ll give you 1 or 2 hours of our time. We’ll bring in 7 or 8 of our top team members. We’re all gonna be there. We’re all gonna hear about what you do and where you wanna take your company, and they come up with All of these ideas and strategies about where they wanna take everything, and then they give them a report about it, and it’s totally free. And then say, hey. We will implement all of this for you, and then it is a really, really high ticket item.
RJ Huebert [00:16:34]:
But they’re getting value at the start. They’re showing all their capabilities, and it excites people. And then when you’re face to face with them, they’re gaining trust. They believe you. They see all the smiling people in the room, and that is kind of more interesting than, You know, a a free consultation or something like that.
Geena Greguric [00:16:55]:
Right. And that’s even I would even say this. When you do something like that. I think sometimes people are a little hesitant to they don’t wanna give away give away everything. Right? And and it’s not. I mean, I’ve seen some of the most success with companies When they’re able to give free advice, free information, they’re able to become somewhat somewhat of an expert in the eyes of the consumers. And even if they don’t jump at it that At that moment, they’re going to be in the back of their mind in the future when it is time to move forward with some of those initiatives. And, I mean, your agency friend, it sounds a lot like, You know, they’re giving them, hey.
Geena Greguric [00:17:28]:
Here’s all all that you should be doing, and it’s probably like, wow. That’s a lot. We can handle all this for you. So it’s such an easy, like, conversion there.
RJ Huebert [00:17:35]:
Yeah. Exactly. And something I like to do from the ad agency side of things for online advertising is, some of the big players in the world are making you sign a 12 month contract. I’ve I’ve heard of 24 month contracts. I don’t know how serious that is, but I’ve I’ve heard of it. For companies that are, like, they wanna dip their toes in it, but they don’t wanna commit to 12 months, like, I’ll work with them and maybe do a 3 month test. Because When I work with clients, we know we should be able to see the success of our campaigns after 3 months. We’ll know if we’re doing the right activities, spending the right amount of money, trying to hit the right goals after 3 months.
RJ Huebert [00:18:17]:
And we will not hold your feet to the fire for 12 months. If it’s not working, it’s not working. If it is, let’s keep going. Let’s let’s throw more money at this. Let’s keep getting you more results. But that’s, you know, something I I do.
Geena Greguric [00:18:29]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So jumping around here a little bit, you mentioned earlier, you know, if you don’t know what that right keyword is. We’re trying to figure out How do you find the right keyword? Right? I know Google has keyword planner. Can you talk a little bit about what that is and how can listeners walk away today and start using that right
RJ Huebert [00:18:48]:
I’ll give a real world example. So I just gave a proposal for a Pittsburgh based company. They play in the event space slash things to do in Pittsburgh, and I was doing keyword research for them. So the the the phrase things to do in Pittsburgh, if I wanna build keywords around that, I may only think of a few in my head internally, but keyword planner, actually, what they will do Google has years years years of Data and research. And so they will tell you that key key key phrase, they might give me a list of 700 different options That are kind of similar to that main things to do in Pittsburgh. So I recommend businesses start with, like, Keyword planner or work with your ad agency to start developing these target keywords that you wanna go after, because you get a sense of Historical data, but you also get a sense of the competition, low, medium, and high. And also the what it takes for that cost per click on the low end and the high end. So you can see things to do in Pittsburgh.
RJ Huebert [00:19:55]:
I was very surprised. That key phrase, the low end was like It can be as low as 30¢ a click to the high end for what I saw for something that was, like, $2. That seems like a very Cheap way to hit that audience when they’re searching for things new in Pittsburgh. You could show your ad, and it might only cost you $2 for that click.
Geena Greguric [00:20:18]:
Right. And so When you’re looking at all the different keywords and phrases, there are all these different prices, how do you decide How many you’re you’re bidding on, and and are you only sort of going for ones that are maybe high ticket, high volume? Do you throw in some ones that are a little more Niche with a lower price. Like, how are you balancing more expensive keywords that are maybe searched more often with the more affordable options?
RJ Huebert [00:20:43]:
Yeah. So what I do is I’ll, like, mix and match, High, medium, and low competition and cost. And then it’s all about monitoring performance. So When I set my goals, I am looking for conversion. So somebody that actually contacts you or somebody that makes a purchase. Yeah. In my opinion, for most businesses, this is what moves the needle. It’s Revenue or leads that they could work the lead to become a sale.
RJ Huebert [00:21:07]:
So I will see if specific key words are making that performance better or worse. And based on that, I could pause keywords, introduce new keywords, things like that. But it’s all tied to what does that keyword produce For the client, and that’s what’s important. So, like, some of the higher, more expensive keywords, It those might drive the most business. So it might at first, you might be, like, turned off. Like, oh, wow. It’s kind of expensive cost per click. Like, some law firms that I work with, Some clicks are, like, $75 for one click.
RJ Huebert [00:21:43]:
Wow. But if that’s bringing them a $30,000 case, they don’t care. They’ll do that all day.
Geena Greguric [00:21:48]:
Right. No. That makes sense. And so you mentioned, a minute ago here, a key phrase. So can you explain the difference between a a keyword and a key phrase and and where and why those matter?
RJ Huebert [00:21:59]:
So, like, a keyword could be like could be super broad. Car, Volvo, Hyundai. Even, like, marketing company could be considered a keyword. But key phrase is when it’s, like, a little bit of a longer tail, like things to do in Pittsburgh. You know, maybe 3 or 4 or 5, 6 different words in there. And then you wanna start thinking about broad match, Phrase match and exact match. Broad match, if you if you just pick cars as your keyword, you’re gonna get a bunch of search volume that has, like, Hyundai’s for sale, BMW license plates. It just I garbage is what I consider broad match for the most part.
RJ Huebert [00:22:44]:
Phrase match is where it gets interesting. So if you wanna target like, Pittsburgh activities is a phrase, But it can also return a bunch of other search phrases like, Pitt Pittsburgh activities for free in the summer. Pittsburgh activities to take your family to. Pittsburgh activities where they sell hot dogs at. Like, it can still return a lot as long as that very first phrase is in there, and then exact matches. That exact thing has to be there, and only that. So Pittsburgh activities. I’m only gonna target that exact thing.
Geena Greguric [00:23:20]:
Yeah. No. And so when you’re deciding on On your keywords and key phrases, where do competitors play into this? And where you know, what high level advice Do you have for teams when they’re building their keyword, key phrase strategy? And and how does competition matter?
RJ Huebert [00:23:37]:
Well, So competition matters a lot. Because if you are in a very, crowded marketplace for what you do, And I’ll just use law firms as an as an example. Workers comp law firms, most I shouldn’t say most law firms. There are many law firms that offer workers’ comp as like a service line in their company. Now they will both be trying to bid on the same keywords for workers’ comp, workers’ comp law firm, workers’ comp lawyer. I wanna sue my business, sue my company for violating workers’ comp. So if we’re both going after the same keywords, Google has this auction, and that’s kind of like behind closed doors. You don’t really see what’s happening, but you know that there’s 5 businesses Bidding on that keyword, and so that’s gonna jack up that cost per click price.
RJ Huebert [00:24:31]:
So I think you just need to take a look at your competitive landscape, What you’re trying to do, do keyword research, and that will tell you exactly the competition. And then once you have your keywords that you wanna target, you can do what’s called a forecast. So you can pick the top 10 keywords in your market, and you can say that I have a budget of $2,000 a month that will give you expected cost per click, Expected clicks, impressions, and you can get a general sense of where you wanna be.
Geena Greguric [00:24:58]:
Mhmm. So there’s a whole lot that goes in to Google advertising. Right? I mean, even just today, we talked about a whole lot of different things. And so there’s always the option as well when you kinda first log in, you’re gonna see that you can, you know, do regular ads Or you can do their smart ads. Right? So when does it make sense to do smart ads? Is that something you’d recommend for beginners to get Dip their toes in, or should they just start with regular? When should they upgrade to the more advanced features?
RJ Huebert [00:25:26]:
If they’re not ready to work with an agency, if they are super beginner, maybe a Smart ads the way to go. It’s just when you have a regular a real account, there are just so many options you can do with Targeting with where you want your ad to run, on what device, on what age range you want to hit. You know, there’s just there’s a 1,000 different things you can choose and high and make your ad super relevant and target the right people. Smart ad, you can get up with a click of a finger, And it’s okay. Yeah. Then you’re in the arena. Right? You wanna be in the arena fighting the battle. Right? You don’t wanna be outside, you know, looking in, not doing anything.
Geena Greguric [00:26:10]:
Yeah. No. I would say, just a very recent example at a client who They were using smart ads. They’re running their ads internally. And one of the kind of biggest indicators for them to know that it was time to switch over was that they just kept getting unqualified leads, leads that weren’t in their sort of price range. They have a luxury product. They’re, you know, targeting more affluent buyers. And so by upgrading, they were able to target, instead of just the general Pittsburgh area, more specific ZIP codes specific areas that they were looking to target, and that really helped them get more qualified leads.
Geena Greguric [00:26:42]:
So there’s I think there’s some indicators if you’re starting to see that your keywords, you are looking like they’re right, they’re feeling right to you, but maybe you’re getting some disqualified leads. Maybe it’s time to update up switch over to the more advanced features so you could just target more more accurately and more specifically.
RJ Huebert [00:26:59]:
Yeah. And for those, beginners out there, I would tell everyone to look at your search term, report. A search term report is just what people actually type into the search bar that showed your ad. And if you start seeing, like, a lot of garbage in there, You know, you need to add keywords to you need to add those phrases to your negative keyword list. A negative keyword list for those that don’t know is just, If somebody types this, your ad does not show. So you could create a whole negative list to make sure That your ad dollars aren’t being wasted. Because at the end of the day, we don’t have an endless budget. You might only have a daily budget of $100 a day.
RJ Huebert [00:27:38]:
And if your cost per click is 10, $20 per click, that’s 5 clicks. Your ads might not show up past noon because you’ve already spent or exhausted your entire budget. So you need to be cognizant cognizant of that.
Geena Greguric [00:27:53]:
Right. And when you’re setting that daily budget For someone who’s who’s brand new, do you have a starting point that you personally recommend? Does it depend on sort of what those keywords are costing? How how
RJ Huebert [00:28:02]:
do you
Geena Greguric [00:28:02]:
calculate that?
RJ Huebert [00:28:04]:
Yeah. So you need to take a look at, you know, the what the average cost per click is gonna be for those keywords, and that’s what the forecast can tell you. So, For example, if if you know that you need to make a conversion, You need 10 people to go to your site, and 1 person fills out a lead form. So that’s a 10% conversion rate. You need to kind of do your math based on that. So how many people do you need to actually get to your site for them to convert to become a lead? And that Depends on your website, depends on your offer, depends if you have testimonials and, you know, there’s Unique selling opportunities on your site. But you have to kinda do backwards math. Like, how many people do I really need to get on my site to convert? And based on that, that’s probably what you should do to determine your budget.
Geena Greguric [00:28:57]:
Yep. No. Great advice. So Switching gears here out of Google, I’ve been wanting to to talk a little bit more about social. So, can you talk about what type of Paid content that you’re putting on social media, and how does that differ from what you’re putting on your Google advertising for any given client?
RJ Huebert [00:29:15]:
I will give, one one example on LinkedIn. So what I’m seeing perform really well on LinkedIn are called document ads. For those out there, just think about a PDF. You have a 10 page PDF on Your product or service, something that gives value to your intended audience. You can actually gate the content after a few pages. Say it’s a 10 page document, you upload it, you deliver the first 5 pages for free. And then you say, hey. If you want to unlock the rest of the document, give us your name, email, contact info, and they can download it.
RJ Huebert [00:29:49]:
I’m seeing that perform really, really well on LinkedIn on the b to b space, but that exact ad type does not translate to Google Ads. It doesn’t translate to search or Even YouTube, unless you make a video around it. I could see display maybe if you have, like, get our Our, free PDF on the top ten reasons are x y z. You know? That could possibly work, but, like, On LinkedIn, you’re actually showing the first, you know, x amount of pages.
Geena Greguric [00:30:18]:
Right. And for for something like that, this is a pretty logistical question. But, when you’re putting out an ad like that, Are you usually having them form fill right out of LinkedIn, or are you sending them to a landing page to form fill? Do you have a preference?
RJ Huebert [00:30:34]:
Yeah. If you can keep them on the specific channel, that’s best. Because once it takes, like, 1, 2, 3 clicks to get where you need to go, I mean, people are just Dropping like flies. The document ad specifically, it’s an on LinkedIn form. So, like, they just basically click to download, and it actually prepopulates their information because they’re already logged in to LinkedIn. So they really don’t have to do anything. It’s like 2 clicks, and they have the information they need.
Geena Greguric [00:31:02]:
That’s great.
RJ Huebert [00:31:02]:
Whereas, you know, the other channels, there are lead forms on Facebook. There are lead forms on Google, so they don’t have to necessarily leave if you don’t want them to. Mhmm. But if you think your website does a great job of selling who you are, Maybe you have a very in-depth product that you really need to describe and show videos and and images to really describe it. Maybe it is best to send them to your website so that they can really understand what you’re trying to do.
Geena Greguric [00:31:32]:
Right. No. Absolutely. So are you seeing any trends in the social space right now that are more effective at lead gen? I obviously, you mentioned the documents on LinkedIn. Is there anything else that you’ve seen work effectively maybe on other channels.
RJ Huebert [00:31:46]:
I’ll give an I’ll give an example on Facebook. I’ll I’ll call it a 1 two punch. So In the consideration stage, if you think about a marketing funnel, top is awareness, middle is consideration, bottom is is conversion. So in the consideration phrase, there’s a video or campaign type called, engagement video views. So you can actually show a video for your ad, and you can tag it for, Remarketing purposes. So if somebody watches 10 seconds of the video, if they’ve watched 25% or 50% or a duration, You can dump that audience into a bucket. Mhmm. I’ll call it remarketing.
RJ Huebert [00:32:29]:
And then you can do a conversion ad to those people in that bucket to actually get them to convert and become a lead or a sale. I like that 1 2 punch because if they watch 10 seconds of the video or 25 or fifty percent of the video, that means they’re engaged. They wanna know a little bit more. They’re they’re watching you. They’re considering it. So why don’t you hit them with a a conversion ad right after because, you know, they’ve shown interest? I’ve seen that work group both.
Geena Greguric [00:32:58]:
That’s really awesome. So for any given campaign, depending on which social channel you’re pushing it out on, are you changing Strategies for each channel, or are you putting the same message on every channel?
RJ Huebert [00:33:11]:
No. I I’ll change the the strategy in messaging. Just one example, like Facebook ads. What you might say on a awareness campaign, that’s probably to a cold audience. They have no idea who you are or what you do, So you need to kind of tell a different story than if they’re it’s if it’s a conversion campaign. Because if it’s a conversion campaign, they probably know who you are. They’ve probably visited your website or engaged with you in some capacity. Now hit them with an offer that makes them wanna act.
RJ Huebert [00:33:46]:
That’s that whole strategy changes completely for different channels. So, like, on Google Ads, for search, it’s based on, like, what your goal is. Do you want a conversion? Do you wanna be Maximize your clicks, get them on your site, get anyone on your site. Do you wanna be in the top 3 positions, which is target max impressions? So it’s just it’s very different per per marketing channel.
Geena Greguric [00:34:14]:
Right now. And so if you’re Someone who’s looking to start advertising on social media. Similar to my question with Google, is there a minimum spend that you would recommend To get started.
RJ Huebert [00:34:25]:
So for example, LinkedIn. LinkedIn is $10 a day minimum, but you’re not gonna get anywhere with $10 a day. On Facebook ads, you could say I wanna spend a dollar a day, and that lets you play. Right? That lets you kinda test the waters. You’ll get some impressions. You may get a click or 2, and then you’ve exhausted your entire budget. On Google Ads, you could say, you know, I wanna spend a dollar a day. So, like, you can get in very, very cheap.
RJ Huebert [00:34:57]:
Now are you gonna see any Results from that? Probably not. When I’m working with clients, I like to have a minimum advertising budget of $1,000 a month. And $1,000 a month may get you 1 it’ll definitely get you 1 campaign, maybe 2 maybe 2 campaigns. If If we’re breaking up the budget more than that, it’s just gonna be so ineffective. Mhmm. And you’re probably gonna get 1 campaign on 1 marketing channel.
Geena Greguric [00:35:26]:
Yep.
RJ Huebert [00:35:27]:
But if you wanna be like, hey. I only have a couple bucks to spend. By all means, put that in there, but you’re not gonna see anything.
Geena Greguric [00:35:33]:
Right. So so whether you’re looking at social or search, what are some tips for creating ad copy that’s Gonna grab grab your reader’s attention and resonate with your target audience.
RJ Huebert [00:35:45]:
That’s a great question. On Facebook, I may have this grand idea of What copy will quote unquote work? Yeah. But what I think will work and what people actually respond to could be so totally different. Facebook actually makes it really interesting. You can put in 5 different headline options and 5 different descriptions and you can just Mix or you can just try various copy points in in all of your headlines and descriptions. Facebook will use machine learning to mix and match the combinations. So, ultimately, they’re gonna take a look at what are people interacting with, what are they clicking on, was driving conversions, and then they’re gonna start optimizing the headline and description for best performance. Google does this too.
RJ Huebert [00:36:34]:
Google does this with their responsive search ads and responsive display ads. Mhmm. For search ads on Google, they mix and match 15 different headlines and 4 different descriptions. So you don’t have to be perfect. At the end of the day, actually, you don’t have to be perfect at what you’re writing. I would just make sure it’s varied.
Geena Greguric [00:36:52]:
Yeah.
RJ Huebert [00:36:53]:
Make sure what you’re writing is varied. Make sure you have an offer in there, because, you know, you want somebody to act. Put some, urgency around what you’re saying, make people want to respond. Don’t be boring. Don’t be vanilla. You know, it’s a delicate dance because in the b to b world, you know, you don’t wanna say something where it turns somebody off. It’s a delicate balance, but also if you’re so vanilla, people are gonna roll their eyes. They’re gonna just skip right by your ad.
RJ Huebert [00:37:23]:
They’re gonna be like, this is boring. Yeah.
Geena Greguric [00:37:25]:
No. I mean, it’s so important to test. I always say, like, my go to phrase is, like, sample size of 1. This is what I think is gonna work. And that that’s such the truth. I mean, everyone’s so different, so you really do have to test. Like, you should be if there’s multiple options available, you definitely should be using them.
RJ Huebert [00:37:41]:
And, once you start getting results, you can Sort on Facebook by headline by description. You can find out what those winners are. So if I know the winning headline and description, I can actually repurpose that for other channels. So now if I know people are responding to the way I say something here, I can do that on LinkedIn. I can do that on Google Display, and That’s a good way to find, you know, winning combinations.
Geena Greguric [00:38:06]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So once your ads are all live, you’re on social, you’re on Google, whatever it may be, What k KPIs should founders be looking at or closely monitoring, and how often should they be? Because, I mean, you look at some companies have entire teams to do this. Right? So so what should they be looking at, and and how often with their limited time?
RJ Huebert [00:38:28]:
Well, I know what people should be looking at. It’s conversion. It’s that lead. It’s that Now, and as far as, like, how every how long how often should be people be looking at that? If you’re seeing your lead notification come in your email and it’s working, you don’t need to necessarily look at it all that frequently because you’re actually getting that lead or that sale. You’re Getting that immediate satisfaction. Right? Another important metric is, like, the conversion rate Or the cost per conversion. Because, obviously, the higher the conversion rate, the better. The lower the cost per lead, the better.
RJ Huebert [00:39:04]:
So that’s one thing when you work with agencies. We’re always trying to beat a certain number. We’re always trying to improve the accounts. So that’s when you might want to look at performance more frequently is, hey. What is that cost per lead? What is that cost per conversion? Because if you’re seeing some keywords performing, but, like, they are just, like, so so expensive, you might wanna pause it and put put more emphasis on other keywords.
Geena Greguric [00:39:32]:
And and at what point, you know, you run you’re running these ads 1 week, 2 weeks. You don’t see any conversions yet. At what point do you start to go in and make changes?
RJ Huebert [00:39:42]:
Probably week 3. Week 3 to week 4. I like Yeah. Some chain I’m not I’m not being it’s not very drastic, the changes. But, like, by week 2, you should kinda have a feel, like, Is this doing what I intended it to do? But I like to I like to give it, you know, a little bit longer time. So if I see something not necessarily performing the way I wanna do, what are some low hanging fruit that I can really take advantage of? Can I introduce new images, New videos, new copy? Is there a new landing page I could send people to? Perhaps your landing page just sucks. You wouldn’t believe how many Companies that I’ve seen, they wanna send people to their contact page, but there’s no information on the contact page except for a form. And maybe you want testimonials.
RJ Huebert [00:40:31]:
Maybe you want some case studies or logos of people you’ve worked with, or use that as an opportunity to sell your business for your product or service. So that’s that’s another consideration as well. Those are all kind of the low hanging fruit.
Geena Greguric [00:40:44]:
Yeah. I mean, another shameless plug for HubSpot. You I’m pretty sure HubSpot in there. I’m not sure if in the free version, you can create UTMs. So you can make a link directly for Google that has All the information that someone who maybe has never heard of you but came up in search, all available on that page. Like, it doesn’t have to be your home page. It doesn’t have to be, like, A contact page, it can be sort of a custom page that has the type of information you think someone who searches for you would be looking for.
RJ Huebert [00:41:10]:
Oh, yeah. And you know what? The the hot thing everyone’s doing in lead gen is creating, like, a stand alone landing page. So you don’t necessarily send them to your direct website Where you have a 150 different pages and 8,000 services and things for sale, and people get distracted, And then they get a phone call and then they leave. Or if you have a limited amount of time, 30 seconds to a minute, where you’re setting somebody somewhere, Chris, stand alone landing page on Unbounce, on Leadpages. It’s a sub domain so it looks exactly like your website domain. And you talk and speak about only what you were advertising. Nothing else. No other hyperlinks to other sites On your website, no other information to distract.
RJ Huebert [00:41:55]:
Make it clean, simple, and easily navigable, And you’ll be way better off.
Geena Greguric [00:42:02]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So to wrap us up, I’d love to get a final piece of advice or key takeaway you’d like to share with the audience to help them achieve rapid growth through digital advertising.
RJ Huebert [00:42:13]:
Always be testing. Listen. I promote Google Ads all day every day. Maybe Facebook ads will work for you. My recommendation, if you have, like, a a smaller budget, test 1 marketing channel for, like, 2 or 3 months, Pick a few different campaign types, and make sure you have a offer that would really Resound with your audience.
Geena Greguric [00:42:35]:
Yeah. So for folks who wanna get in touch with you or learn more about HBT, where can they find you?
RJ Huebert [00:42:41]:
Hbtdigital.com is the website. On socials, it’s just at hbtdigitalconsulting. I’m also on there too personally. It’s just r j_hbt.
Geena Greguric [00:42:52]:
Perfect. RJ, thanks so much for joining me today. It was great having you.
RJ Huebert [00:42:55]:
Thanks, Gina, for the opportunity. Have a good day.